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[nightcracker]

People would still be able to play the mod. Its not like its completely lost... Or is it? Also about the lag. How much less lag can this possibly create? Is it as drastic as a person that gets 2 seconds of delay and a lot of stutters to have .5 seconds of delay and nearly no stutters?

The mod is completely lost.

The thing of that lag compensation is that the feeling of lag seemingly dissappears (you don't have to lead your targets), that combined with prediction and interpolating (removing stutters) mean stutterless and seemingly lagless gameplay. Most importantly, you don't have to predict your jump when jumping off a platform.

The only disadvantage that we get (we can't make latency disappear after all) is that the "shot around the corner bug" occurs. Despite shots being seemingly missed on your screen they still hit for the shooting players, and get registered as such. This will be most noticable when hiding behind boxes. Luckily, most shots in GG2 are projectiles, so we can sync them to hide the lag even more. But it would certainly be noticed for hitscans (sniper).

What for example can happen is that a rocketman shoots a rocket towards a Pyro. The Pyro player sees the rocket on his screen and reflects the rocket. But in the time it takes for the reflect to get to the server the rocket already hit! (which is also what the rocketman will see), but then the event of the reflect gets to the server, and the server goes back in time to see if the reflect was successful. It was, so history gets recalculated, and the rocket will be reflected. This might create a bit of a "WTF" for the rocketmen, because the rocket seemingly hit but then got reflected. Though weird it is fair.

All of the above described effects are about bullets and shooting. It is very well possible that we might not do lag compensation for shooting, and only for movement. On top of that, dedicated server will greatly reduce latency. It is very well possible for your latency to drop from 230ms to 40ms. Here's a little quick test for you.

Open command prompt and type "ping nclabs.org", without the quotes. It will display how much milliseconds ping you have with my dedicated server (nclabs.org). If I'd host a PyGG2 game on that server, that will be ~ the ping you'll get.

[CrazNoDale]

Oh alright, so it will be stutterless. But the amount of delay would remain the same? Also for the ping thing, why will it give me the ping for your server?

[RedBluYellow]

People would still be able to play the mod. Its not like its completely lost... Or is it? Also about the lag. How much less lag can this possibly create? Is it as drastic as a person that gets 2 seconds of delay and a lot of stutters to have .5 seconds of delay and nearly no stutters?

The mod is completely lost.

The thing of that lag compensation is that the feeling of lag seemingly dissappears (you don't have to lead your targets), that combined with prediction and interpolating (removing stutters) mean stutterless and seemingly lagless gameplay. Most importantly, you don't have to predict your jump when jumping off a platform.

The only disadvantage that we get (we can't make latency disappear after all) is that the "shot around the corner bug" occurs. Despite shots being seemingly missed on your screen they still hit for the shooting players, and get registered as such. This will be most noticable when hiding behind boxes. Luckily, most shots in GG2 are projectiles, so we can sync them to hide the lag even more. But it would certainly be noticed for hitscans (sniper).

What for example can happen is that a rocketman shoots a rocket towards a Pyro. The Pyro player sees the rocket on his screen and reflects the rocket. But in the time it takes for the reflect to get to the server the rocket already hit! (which is also what the rocketman will see), but then the event of the reflect gets to the server, and the server goes back in time to see if the reflect was successful. It was, so history gets recalculated, and the rocket will be reflected. This might create a bit of a "WTF" for the rocketmen, because the rocket seemingly hit but then got reflected. Though weird it is fair.

All of the above described effects are about bullets and shooting. It is very well possible that we might not do lag compensation for shooting, and only for movement. On top of that, dedicated server will greatly reduce latency. It is very well possible for your latency to drop from 230ms to 40ms. Here's a little quick test for you.

Open command prompt and type "ping nclabs.org", without the quotes. It will display how much milliseconds ping you have with my dedicated server (nclabs.org). If I'd host a PyGG2 game on that server, that will be ~ the ping you'll get.

21 ms
 

[nightcracker]

Oh alright, so it will be stutterless. But the amount of delay would remain the same? Also for the ping thing, why will it give me the ping for your server?

That's what the built-in Windows command ping does. And no, the amount of delay does not stay the same. Here let me repeat it once more:

Dedicated servers reduce lag severely; PyGG2 allows for dedicated servers

PyGG2 = less lag

See for yourself, type "ping nclabs.org" in command prompt (start > run > "cmd") and see how much ping it gives you.
(without the quotes ofcourse)

[Orpheon]

Why are so many people looking at this now? Just a week ago I was thinking this thread was dead.

Anyway, as to mods, no. Mods of GMK will have to be completely redone, and anyway, it'll take some time for gg2 modders to learn python.
So yeah, there'll be a small mod winter when this becomes official.

Lag compensation and prediction and all that networking jazz is explained pretty well here (with pictures and everything). I'd suggest reading it for any interested people. We're currently unsure exactly how much we'll compensate, as lag comp has it's bad sides too (see the shot-around-corner bug mentioned before).

Still, there are a lot of factors that will remove stuttering, and probably generally remove much of lag, if not all. It kinda depends how many and how scattered dedicated servers are.


EDIT: Found an even better paper on networking.

[Isumi]

i approve orpheon you are the pillar that goes beyond scoot

[CrazNoDale]

Ahh I got 94 ms.

[nightcracker]

Ahh I got 94 ms.

Oh yes, my server is EU

[CrazNoDale]

Ahh I got 94 ms.

Oh yes, my server is EU

I don't know the ping I get on your server though.

[Isumi]

wait approximately how far along is this?

[MEDIK]

Oh alright, so it will be stutterless. But the amount of delay would remain the same? Also for the ping thing, why will it give me the ping for your server?

That's what the built-in Windows command ping does. And no, the amount of delay does not stay the same. Here let me repeat it once more:

Dedicated servers reduce lag severely; PyGG2 allows for dedicated servers

PyGG2 = less lag

See for yourself, type "ping nclabs.org" in command prompt (start > run > "cmd") and see how much ping it gives you.
(without the quotes ofcourse)

Lowest = 1400 ms... 

[Orpheon]

wait approximately how far along is this?

A progress bar is completely impossible to give until we get into later stages of development.

The best answer is the one I can give without much effort.

What is the current progress bar for gg2?

[CrazNoDale]

Alright 0% would be nothing at all done. Like just thought of the idea a minute ago without any effort. 100% would be vanilla.

[nightcracker]

Oh alright, so it will be stutterless. But the amount of delay would remain the same? Also for the ping thing, why will it give me the ping for your server?

That's what the built-in Windows command ping does. And no, the amount of delay does not stay the same. Here let me repeat it once more:

Dedicated servers reduce lag severely; PyGG2 allows for dedicated servers

PyGG2 = less lag

See for yourself, type "ping nclabs.org" in command prompt (start > run > "cmd") and see how much ping it gives you.
(without the quotes ofcourse)

Lowest = 1400 ms... 

Not sure were you are located and what internet you have, but it's an european server. Autriala-europe is always going to suck bigtime.

[nightcracker]

Alright 0% would be nothing at all done. Like just thought of the idea a minute ago without any effort. 100% would be vanilla.

Well, we did a good chunk of work and some good design decisions, but we still have a LOT of work to do until we have a playable game. I say 20%.